Read an interesting article about the Modular Series of engines and interchangeability. . 4v? About Us - Modern cars have more like 50, and they are split into the fuse block and power distribution box, depending on how much current they carry. Some manufacturers still use speed density. Wiring diagrams for Ford can be purchased online at helminc. Not unpossible just gigantic enough to make the "Street Rod" standalone PCM far worth the $1100. ", but had I noticed that someone resurrected a two year old thread with a "gee, what's going on with this project" question my post would have been far more entertaining. The exhaust features a custom 212-inch pipe system with off-road X pipe running from the stock Cobra manifolds. i called around asking about what computer i should use, i have been told to use the FRPP 3.V kit for the 6.2 in my crown vic and have it calibrated for my engine, the heads will be stock no cnc work. Their bundle saves time, money, and headache when wiring up your ride. If you eliminate some unneeded circuits, you may be able to patch your original wiring harness systems, such as the lighting circuits, into unused fuses on your new system and consolidate. You can just machine an adapter plate to use a standard modular cable-actuated dual bore throttle body (ie Cobra/Mach/MM) instead for pre 05 panthers, and fab a small bracket to mount the cables. (something different) i have welded my rear doors shut and i shaved the rear door handles, the car looks realy good it has a real nice lean look and the stance with factory suspension looks fantastic. The reason I ask is because I was reading a debat in another thread where the 5.4 makes more torque, due to its bigger displacement, but not necesarily more horsepower. - '94 GT Convertible 13.905 at 100.41 mph. From what I've read, some of the changes to the Panther suspension in '03 were to fit the quad cam 4.6 in the Marauder. It is possible to run your factory computer using an aftermarket wiring harness. For Ford F100 F-100 Crown Vic Steel Front Pair Suspension Swap bracket kit. Ford changes the circuit pathways through the harnesses frequently. A mass airflow system features a meter mounted ahead of the throttle plate that measures the amount of air going into the engine. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Anything that can affect what the computer thinks it is seeing needs to be addressed. The crossmember was notched slightly to clear the curve of the factory oil pan. CrownVic.net is a forum and information center dedicated to the Ford Crown Victoria and its siblings: Mercury Grand Marquis, Mercury Marauder, and Lincoln Town Car. Some systems computers can be reprogrammed via the Internet through built in Wi-Fi or through a laptop. This is an SCT X3 programmer being used to download a new performance profile into a modular-engine 1968 Mustang. The 20032004 Cobra Terminator engines continue to be a popular swap engine because they are easy to modify and produce a lot of power. I don't see why it would be endless headaches. but livernoise will be making me a set of cams and springs for it soon. SCTs Eliminator Switch Chip is a plug-in device that can store up to five custom programs on one chip. 2023 Power Automedia. With the introduction of the Ford Control Pack, it has taken over as the best and easiest-to-use computer control system. Yes and no. Make sure that the system you choose is legal. The 2003+ Ford Crown Victoria has become a popular chassis swap donor for older vehicles, especially pick-up trucks for several reasons: First, starting in 2003, the full-sized fords (Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis, and Lincoln Town Car) all had rack-and-pinion steering and a coil-over style spring and shock assembly. This car will be fitted with the T-56 6-speed and Cobra independent rear suspension. I will PM you my user name and forum. So a freer breathing head would make more horsepower, and the 5.4's added displacement can still keep intake velocity up at lower RPMs, which is where torque is made. 11 psi whipple kit = bolt on 500+ hp 4.6L 3V V8. Mosley tribes Lyndel . Wouldn't it be possible to tap into the ECU and make it functional? While many industry names have been used to describe the computer that controls the engine, Ford refers to its system as the Powertrain Control Module or PCM. With this mode, you or your technician using a scanner can turn on and off specific items in the car. so if they are canceling the variable timing it will make less than 300 hp, the variable timing is the key to make 300 hp . Dazed in Conufsed V8 is working on a 3v swap last I heard. There are low profile aftermarket aluminum manifolds for . It doesnt measure the volume of air coming into the engine; it uses a big internal table of fuel curves and uses these calculations to determine the amount of fuel to deliver to the engine. An old swing-arm voltmeter could be used to read the pulses put out by the computer. . But as of now it's guesstamates and math, until some one does it. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. existing tank, you need to reprogram the computer to tell the fuel pump circuit to maximize output all the time and run an old-style regulator and return line to the tank. Fatstang you didnt have to get your pistons notched? Ford F-100 / F-Series Crown Vic Swap Adjustable Motor Mounts for Chevy LS 4.8L/5.3L/6.0L . "We also offer complete wiring systems for the 2005 to 2009 Mustang GT 3-valve 4.6 engine and manual transmission." They have an automatic version as well. Cookie Policy - This is a Smart Junction Box (SJB) from a 2007 Shelby GT500. 96 F150 5.0 Firing OrderFiring order 1996 ford f-150 5. We promise not to use your email address for anything but exclusive updates from the Power Automedia Network. How much work will it take to fit a 4V 5.4 under a stock Panther hood. What do I need to swap for ECM, harnesses, and such? Some aftermarket companies use speed density systems to make big horsepower because they are easier to tune and do not have some of the restrictions of mass air. but i have a few issues. The wires wrap around the heater box and the secondary connectors are part of the under-dash wiring. For this, you need a scan tool, which costs more than the error code readers, depending on what level of features your scan tool possesses. Long blocks seem to be the same, as usual since Ford likes to stamp out the same thing to put in as many vehicles as possible. I'd just wait for a 2v block or get the 3v motor and use 2v internals and heads on it. West Coast wiring guru David Toth has found that the Ford Controls Pack computer lays in perfect on older Mustangs and Cougars by mounting the PCM in the old battery tray area. If you get 360 at the wheels, then yeah you're probably close-ish to 450 at the crank, as 360 is 80% of 450. Other services are available for online wiring and diagnostics. Low-cost code readers, available at most auto parts stores, read these codes, and can erase them, as well. The other thing regardless of the swap is the wiring harness. Still considering a swap myself. Thanks to Chevyguy who reviled me that Ford Racing has a Control Pack that allows easy installation of a 4.6 3V (300hp stock or 350hp with cams) engine into a vehicle with a manual transmission. The PCM harness comes out through the side panel and into the passengers side through the corner firewall. Now I want to put a V10 in for fun. Major changes to the engine may require a change to the size of the mass air meter. The Crown Victoria Coyote is for sale on Craigslist with an asking price of $9,000. A simple error code reader can be had for little cost at most auto parts stores. The EEC-IV computer module is easily identified by its three rows of pins on the main plug. A remote oil filter mount and oil-to-air cooler are also used. REENADED . During the EEC-V era, Ford transitioned away from coil pack ignition to a coil-on-plug (COP) system. The computer calculates the amount of fuel to be delivered to the engine based on air volume, air temperature, manifold pressure, and exhaust gas mix. Sorry 450 hp is modded coyote territory. You would have to mess around with lots of things to make it work so it all comes down to how much is your time worth vs the end results. TL;DR: He has a 2v. The 5.4 3v is almost as wide as the 4v. This is more of a two-way communication with your computer, and the computer can respond to your inquiries and perform tests for you. The EEC-V computer can be identified by the four rows of control pins in its main connector. This owner wanted to retain stock control of the fuel pump and the returnless fuel system. For the later throttle-by-wire engines, Ford has developed a control pack that uses a stock-style Ford computer and a plug-and-play wiring harness that controls just the engine. Mustang is lower profile intake with dual bore throttle body and Explorer is a little taller with single blade round throttle body. Or wait for the 5.4 3v? 5.4s were made (in my opinion) to have 4V heads on them (or TFS heads, now go finish your build bondfreak!) F100 Build: Crown Vic IFS Swap! The throttle-by-wire systems include this servo motor thats attached to the throttle body to move the throttle plate. I think the cams are the same but I could be wrong and yea its not plug and play but its an easy swap. There are three levels of communication with the PCM, and these three levels require three different tools. The biggest challenges to installing the engine are the width and height. The first is a basic low-cost code reader, the second is scan tools and data loggers, and the third is programmers. As far as I know on this forum, it's never been done before. It,s a 5.4 2v N/A and it fit rather very well into a 03+ crown vic. the 3v computer is just a computer it doesnt know if the engine has 2v 3v or 4v it just calculates the air and fuel. In the end, Patrick got exactly what he wanted: a Crown Victoria that looks & drives as if it came with a Coyote from the factory. I know this is for trucks but I would really like to see how this turns out. oil pan, EGR, wiring harness. crown vic 3v swap old restaurants in lawrence, ma The HPT Tuner Suite puts the power of a professional tuning shop on your home PC. i will keep factory compression ratio. i started a project my 03 crown vic i paid 1100 bucks for it at an auction. We swap the whole drivetrain in 1 day, next video will go over wiring up US Shift Quick 6 computer! QA1. Error codes are primarily used, HOW TO SWAP FORD MODULAR ENGINES INTO MUSTANGS, TORINOS AND MORE. Manage Preferences - Come join the discussion about performance, racing, builds, modifications, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! So this V10 Swap will work in any of these as they are all Panther's. Any 99-up 4.6L 2V (Truck, van, SUV, granny car, mustang) will almost be a direct replacement meaning you may have to swap a couple parts from your old motor. The mass air meter heats up a small wire and then measures the resistance in the wire. It also requires the use of the 20112013 Mustang GT airbox and inlet hose, which can be cumbersome when installing in a non-Mustang application. I am just wondering if it makes any noticeable difference. Circuits from the engine area and interior terminate here, and if you plan on using the original harness, you need to get all of the special items like this. After using the TR-3650 for a few years and going back to the 4R70W during the winter, I really want to stick with the manual. If it's a 3 valve it will be straight. We'll send you raw engine tech articles, news, features, and videos every week from EngineLabs. My car in its current state makes 215hp? Over the years, improvements in the PCM and the software running the PCM have increased the level of communication and the amount of data acquisition. does the 6.2 have variable valve timing? Holley and FAST both sell speed density systems that will work with the modular engine and have specific Coyote harness converters to run these engines. Several versions of the EEC-V system were developed and installed on Ford vehicles. These chips, depending on their complexity, can store multiple tunes for different uses (e.g., driving to the dragstrip and changing the tune for your passes; changing the tune on your truck when you are pulling for max torque). Speed density systems use on-board fuel curves and data to calculate the best operating conditions. The rear suspension is also out of a 2003 Cobra, but its slightly modified to work with the mini tubs provided by Autoworks International. A forum community dedicated to Mustang and Ford Performance owners and enthusiasts. Two of the biggest advantages to the modular engine are the amount of data you can retrieve from the computer system, and the ability to tune the engine through re-programming. Most diagnostic tools now have ports to talk to computers and the Internet for even more capabilities. valve train. I was just interested in finding out if anyone has given this a try? This harness contains wiring to the MAFS, Cooling fans, HEGOs, etc as well as the critical power and ground leads. Zlib compression enabled. You need to program around the PATS system, something most aftermarket companies say they can do (but check with your tuner). Seems like alot less hassle. how ever I have all of my parts for the engine. See more. This function can test whether a sensor or switch is turning on or off, can measure the percentage of sensor in use, or the voltage reading of the sensor. I cant see it being much different than using a teksid block with 2v heads. Error codes and data logging help determine what components may need attention, and most systems now work over Wi-Fi. (Photo Courtesy HP Tuners). Eaton M112, 3.4 Billetflow upper, Accufab SBTB + Plenum, Tremec T-56 Magnum, 4.10's, Stainless Works LT's, 2.5" Exhaust W/ Borla Stingers, FX-R projectors, Addco F/R swaybars, Stainless Works LT's, Stainless Works catback, Mo's tune, JLT, Evolve CAI + AlphaN Tune, Dinan strut bar + rear swaybar, Stoptech ST40BBK, UUC Shifter, http://www.modulardepot.com/articlesp.php?aid=52, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.5.9. Some other harness suppliers require you to convert to GM-style generic sensors, which may make it difficult in the future to remember what is installed in the car. For more information on this product or to see the complete offerings from Ron Francis wiring, go here. Generated in 0.114 seconds in which 0.042 seconds were spent on a total of 16 queries. This one should do a bit more than that seeing as it has a custom Marty Ochs tune and a. I have been trolling the auctions and I am looking to pick-up a Crown Vic Cop Car. (with pics of course). What kind of electronics would it take to get it to work in a Panther? About 1999, the Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS) was improved, and installing aftermarket components such as instrumentation became difficult. Because of this, it can sometimes be very inefficient on fuel mileage. An aftermarket stainless-steel stock tank was modified to accept the 2003 fuel pump assembly and locate the fuel pump at the correct height. Most professional mechanics have a scan tool that not only reads the error codes, but it can track data live while the car is running and look at data stored by the computer. I was just going to have a cam sprocket machined for the driver cam with the pip on it, a crank trigger wheel for the front and just use the engine harness PCM and sensors from the 4.6l that originally came in the car. Nuff said. If you can't figure out which one you're looking at count the cam cover bolts. Dave Cruikshank is a lifelong car enthusiast and an Editor at Power Automedia. Most aftermarket programmers have data logging and error code reading capabilities built in, so they are all-in-one solutions. Electronics are also borrowed from the Cobra donor car and the stock EEC-V computer is re-flashed. An accelerator pedal that uses a potentiometer to identify the position of the pedal is matched to the throttle control. Renegade Race Engines 4.6 SOHC: Cobra Crank, Manley Rods, Custom coated Diamond Pistons >10.5:1 cr w/valve reliefs, PnP npi heads, Comp Cams, 70mm TB, Maurader Intake Assembly w/80mmMAF, 24# inj, Walbro 190lph, FRPP shortys, custom 2.25 dual exh, SCT Xcal2, Dirtyd0g TC; RoadmasterTranz Police Duty 4R70W (mild J-mod). A big change in fuel injection or camshafts may mean that a larger MAF meter is required, and the system cant be tuned without changing several items at once. The shock towers were removed to make room for the wide DOHC heads. Paul's saying they used a 2010 3v computer and harness (and a pro tuner described it as taking awhile to tune right - which would make me pause right there) but YOU are talking about using a 2 valve computer and harness from a 10 year old 03. hey JCG1 thanks for replying, yes the 6.2l has VVT but I was going to lock that out. That means that the suspension geometry and ride quality is designed for this truck. The heads / intake are the limiting factor, and if you decide to run boost you will probably not make as much HP. The early 2005 2006 engines require a modification to the wiring harness to work with the control pack. The first DOHC engines were installed in Lincolns way back in 1993. While there the factory 4.6 L 2v Read More 1996 Crown Victoria with a 460 ci V8 Update 3 October 22, 2021 Crown Victoria She is rust free but does have minor exterior hail damage and could use a paint job. i appreciatte any advice or sugestions, dont know thats a werid but unique swap the the 6,2 is a 3v engine ? Generated in 0.038 seconds in which 0.013 seconds were spent on a total of 15 queries. Through the years, numerous companies have attempted to build harnesses, and I have tried many of them, with varying degrees of success. Most aftermarket systems still use speed density to run the engine because it allows for flexibility in tuning without having to change major components. So that got me thinking; Aftermarket heads for the 2v are very expensive, but I can get a set of 3v heads for cheap, and with a little cleanup and a cam phaser lockout, I could have a better flowing head. With the exception of being able to erase codes, this is pretty much one-way communication, but it is still beneficial. instead of doing the 3valve computer deal, I will just have the factory 4.6l 2v engine harness swapped to my 6.2l and use all the sensors the 4.6l uses and have the factory computer tuned to my engine. PATS anti-theft is defeated through ECM reprogramming, but we offer a solution for that as well.. Fuel injectors, fuel rail. Go here to check out what weve been up to. I meant the other way around, why can't the pcm my car came with be reprogrammed to manage the new motor? He had some explaining to do.). Find a good tuner dealer and work closely to get your conversion right. Most MAF systems use sequential fuel injection, which means the fuel injectors are only firing once per cycle, making them more efficient than some speed density systems that fire every revolution (also called waste spark). You don't understand how jihad works, infidel. Yes it will breathe more than a 2v but you're taking away all the adjustability of the performance, so whats the point? As I outlined in the introduction, one of the advantages to a modular engine swap is the ability to get information from the computer for both maintenance and performance tuning. To get the pro/street look the factory fender flares have been widened 112 inches in the back and 1 inch in the front. If you cant get the entire donor car, try to get as much as you can: computer, all the wiring harnesses, throttle pedal (if using throttle-by-wire), fuel pumps, and controllers. (Photo Courtesy HPT). They are more torquey because of their long stroke. If you bypass items such as the EVAP or EGR for off-road use, or you are converting a mechanical fuel pressure regulator, you need to let the PCM know what you are changing. You may also have to move pins within connectors if you have mismatched harnesses, or if you are trying to combine harness connectors. That is the main reason I was wondering about the feasability of the SOHC 3v. As the cars became more complex, Ford needed new ways to bring circuits together. This means provisions need to be made in your swap to accommodate the throttle-by-wire gas pedal. In 2005 Ford introduced the throttle-by-wire system that actuated the throttle plate using an electric motor rather than a traditional cable. You can choose between an aftermarket or the factory system that originally came with your engine. However, the newer the engine and vehicle, the more difficult it is to use the factory components. The swap works because the Mustang specific parts will be swapped from the original to the donor. Advertising - Paul him self told me he used the factory 4.6l 3v PCM took awhile to tune right and spliced the 6.2l harness to the 4.6l harness. EngineLabs Refreshes A Set Of Ford GT40 Cylinder, Mazda Really is Bringing Back the Wankel Rotary, Performance Distributors Keeps The Spark Alive With SOS, Melling Offers New Timing Kits for Ford 4.6L and 5.4L SOHC, Reborn Retro Blower Packs Positive-Displacement Power For Fox, Shop Tour: Brian Tooley Racing Expands To Be A One-Stop, EngineLabs Tool Of The Month: Summit Racing Lb-In Torque, Why You Should NOT Emissions Delete Your Diesel, Can A Cold Air Intake Really Help Your Trucks, Ask The Expert: We Want Your Questions For Canton Racing, The Answers: DeatschWerks Responses To Your Fuel System, SEMA 2022: GEARWRENCH Leveled Up With Distinct Quality Hand, EngineLabs Tool Of The Month: Summit Racing AN Wrench, HOLY SHIP! the factory harness lays right on top of the motor. The basic code reader can read error codes stored in the computer. A zealous car geek since birth, he digs lead sleds, curvy fiberglass, kustoms and street rods. Cams and . #3. Purchase the tools you need to successfully lengthen and shorten wires, or remove and install pins. These read the codes from the computer, and then you can check your manual or online for a solution. Make the donor look like the original (electrically). I know that's a rough estimate for drivetrain power loss percentage, but short of dynoing the engine itself before installation it's as close as we can get to figuring out the crank number AFAIK. but i have a few issues. Ford F-100 / F-Series Crown Vic Swap Adjustable Motor Mounts for Ford FE v8 352/360/390/427. The first is a basic low-cost code reader, the second is scan tools and data loggers, and the third is programmers. This gets my vote for coolest swap idea this week! Ford also has used some creative routing for some of the wires, requiring you to get all the wiring harnesses from your donor car. Here is a brief overview of the different types of computers and how they work. With more and more information being stored by the computer systems, one thing that comes in handy is the freeze frame data. If you want to drop a Blue Oval Mod Motor into your Mustang, T-Bird, or Rod and keep it all FoMoCo, Ron Francis Wiring has you covered. For the later VCT engines, the Ford Control Pack will also control the variable cam timing. The rear IRS is already equipped with the ABS wheels, and the front spindles are retrofitted. A forum community dedicated to all Ford Mustang owners and enthusiasts. With the radiator and intercooler plumbing, the empty space in front of the engine goes away very fast. The biggest hurtle youll have is tuning really and having to lock out vct makes the 3v swap pointless in my opinion. Only car that came with more than two valves was the Marauder which had a 4v. 2004 Crown Vic LX SOLD!! WIth the mechanical work wrapped in the shop, Matt strapped her down to the rollers to get dialed in by Vlad via HP Tuners. Freeze-frame data records the engine performance, as well as speed, emissions, what gear you were in, everything. There are so many conflicting opinions Do I get the 5.4 2v? A Crown Victoria engine and a Mustang engine may have the same connector, but Ford changes the pinouts of the wires in the connector. Diablosports InTune i2 compact tuner can hold as many as five custom tunes, log data real time, and talk to your favorite tuner via the USB port, allowing it to be programmed from a remote site from anywhere. MASSIVE issues to get that to work in a non OEM install. Ford is very good at keeping the wiring colors consistent, but it doesnt really want you interchanging harnesses. All communications with the computer are done through the DLC (Data Link Connector), which is a standardized plug that is usually mounted under the drivers side of the dashboard. I own an '88 GT and can tell you the engine bay is HUGE once you factor out all the crap needed for emmisions and A/C. When your computer sets an error code, it records exactly what was happening when the error occurred. It doesnt require drive-by-wire or control of variable cam timing, and there are plenty of aftermarket power adders to make the Terminator a good choice for a swap. About | Contact | Terms | Privacy, Unless you will be using the stock pump and controller in your. VCT and the improved PATS system make using the factory wiring more difficult in most cases. This police car unit is very big and difficult to use in a swap due to the speedometer calibration system. Unless you are a wizard with fuel curves and shift points, you will be working closely with a tuner, and they will probably use the tuner they are most comfortable using (see Chapter 10). Mass air systems do not require many fuel curve tables and can calculate the most efficient ratio on the fly. I haven't heard od a DOHC 5.4 being installed in a CV, probably because its too wide, but would a 3V 5.4 fit? If you liked this article you will LOVE the full book. If you plan to develop your ride for racing or top performance, a programmer may be right for you.